Kristy Bratton talks with Tom Sniegoski about his latest book A Kiss Before the Apocalypse

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THE WRITING

When did your interest in Angels begin?

I’ve had to think about it a couple of times over the last couple of years, especially after The Fallen. The church that I used to go to when I was little was an old Polish church, Saint Michaels. The paintings that were on the ceiling were of Saint Michael, the archangel, and he was standing on a person but the body became a serpent. It was obviously the devil, pinning him to the ground with a sandaled foot while his wings were spread, he had this big spear in one hand and he’s aiming the spear down at Satan. I was fascinated by that because it’s this giant painting on the ceiling and it was a weird contradiction, angels and Christmas and the cute little cherubs and I’m seeing this. ‘Wait a minute. This isn’t what I’m thinking it’s suppose to be; what everybody’s telling me about angels, this isn’t it.’ I think a lot of it came from seeing that kind of stuff and doing a little bit of reading and seeing in biblical writing that Angels weren’t all sweet and nice, and cute and cuddly. They were basically God’s messengers and when God was pissed off that’s who he usually sent. ‘Oh cool, here’s something that your parents don’t tell you about.’

How much research have you done regarding the history of Angels?

The thing is, the more research you do you find how huge it is and there’s just so many different interpretations. What I do usually with it is I don’t have one strict interpretation, I kind of take all of the stuff and throw it in a pot and whatever works best, in terms of telling the story, that’s what I’ll use. If you follow one strict thing to say, ‘this is the truth, this person wrote this book so I’m gonna follow this because that obviously is the real story,’ I’ve actually had people, who are obviously very religious, saying to me, “I don’t understand your interpretation of this.” If you want to dissect this I’ll go thru this with you and we’ll find 90 sources for this one particular character. You can tell they’re writing about the same angel or angelic being but the spellings of the name are different and there are these little weird points that will pop up in some and not in others so you really can’t say this is the right thing and the others are wrong. There’s just too much conflicting stuff and that’s why I just say the hell with it and throw it all in the pot.

Where did the story for Kiss come from?

A Kiss Before the Apocalypse is probably the hardest thing that I ever wrote, it was just a really, really tough job. What’s interesting about Kiss is the fact that I started writing it a long time ago. It was a book that I had intended to write some time but never got around to doing it, but I had five chapters and those were the chapters I would show editors. When editors would say, “Can you write a book?” Here you go, here are my five chapters and that’s what I had. An interesting story with that is Lisa Clancy, who was my editor over at Simon & Schuster when I did the Buffy Monster Book with Chris [Golden] and Steve Bissette, she was talking to Chris, “I really enjoyed working with Tom, we just got the Angel [the TV series] license do you think he’d be interested in pitching for Angel?” and he said, “He’s got some sample chapters you can read these.” She read the sample chapters and they convinced her that I could actually write a novel, but they also got her gears clicking and had her say, “I would love to know how this story ends, these five chapters are really good.” And Chris being Chris (laughter) said, “Well you should hire him to write something original for you to incorporate some of those ideas,” and that’s where The Fallen came from.

What’s your methodology when constructing a novel?

Usually everything that I write I outline. Once I got the go-ahead to write Kiss for Penguin, I pulled out all my notes because I had probably already outlined it quite a few years ago but I wanted to know if that was where I wanted to go with it now. Rereading the first chapters, and even rewriting and tweaking some of the first chapters, and looking over all the notes I did a pretty extensive outline that pretty much took me step-by-step through the rest of the book right to the ending. I’m meticulous, I drive Chris crazy, because Chris doesn’t really like to do that where as I’m one of those guys who likes to know where it’s going. I feel almost nervous that I’ll lose my way, that I’ll wind up going down a path I shouldn’t have gone and end up wasting time or not getting to where I need to go fast enough. I break it down chapter-by-chapter, scene-by-scene. So when I write a book I usually know precisely where it’s gonna go, it may change here and there but I still stick pretty close to my outline.

What about Kiss did you enjoy writing most?

Even though it was ridiculously painful to write; the emotional stuff. Looking back on it, [it was] ridiculously cathartic, my hands are shaking and I got tears in my eyes, but man that felt good. I don’t ever go to those places in my writing because my writing is usually about me having a good time and hoping that my readers are gonna go for the ride too and have a good time. Going to these really deep, dark emotional places was so uncommon for me that it got to be, ‘Where am I going today, is there an emotional scene today? Oh no, I don’t want to,’ but there was that part that was still very excited about going there and stretching those muscles that I’d never stretched before. And I really enjoyed the interactions between your Francis and your Remy, Francis and even Marlowe had some interesting back-and-forth, those are always fun to write too. It’s funny, those things are so much more fun to write than the big spectacular battle scenes or action scenes, I would take a conversation about a cup of coffee over an action scene in a heartbeat.

THE CHARACTERS

How do the vices to give your characters (smokers, drinkers) develop?

You know what’s really interesting, a lot of that just kind of happens as I’m writing them. Let’s take Mulvehill for example, the cop friend, basically in the outline it just says: Remy and Mulvehill are on the rooftop deck and they’re drinking. A lot of the character stuff, even the way the characters talk, develop just in me sitting down to write the scene. It literally is off the top of my head, the character kind of reveals himself to me as I’m putting the character through the motions in actually getting him onto the paper, ‘Oh that’s who he is, that’s cool,’ And when I make these crazy realizations I kind of run with the realization – ‘Oh he’s funny,’ so suddenly the character’s funny. He wasn’t before when I was originally conceiving him, he may have been deadly serious and incredibly depressed but in the context of writing a conversation with Remy he might have said something that’s really a wiseass and that fits him. And that causes me to basically build the character from that point.

How did your main character Remy come about?

There’s probably a lot more conscious thought that went into him than anybody else, just because of the fact that he is the lead character and he’s dealing with such heavy stuff. As your main character he has to have that interesting history. A lot, in terms of characterization, comes from the history: what was he that led him to where he is now, what has built him into the type of person that he is. It’s almost like, ’Oh yeah by the way, I’m an angel but I’m also a private eye and that’s cooler.’ I think that was a conscious effort on my part because I wanted the mystery to be an important part of the story, I didn’t want the fantasy aspect to overwhelm the hard-boiled mystery because I love that kind of pulpy, hard-boiled stuff so much. I’ve been wanting to write something like that since I was like 10. So in finally getting to do it I was like, I don’t want to lose sight of that aspect of the character because I think that’s what’s going to make this character stand out; the fact that he is a private eye, and an angel but that’s not as cool. [Remy tends to find himself on the wrong side of a knuckle sandwich] That is probably a characteristic of the hard-boiled genre, to have your PI basically ‘take a licking and keeps on ticking’ type thing. That’s the one thing I loved about the Mike Hammer books by Mickey Spillane. They kicked the shit out him. He gets mangled but you know what, 20-pages in he’s bandaged and broken and bloody but he’s gonna get ya. (laughter) That was always something I thought was so cool. That’s just my love of the genre, having your PI getting his ass kicked is just part of the formula.

What was behind the actions of Nathanuel?

There’s this thing that I [found], especially in doing my research on angels and things, that there was this constant mention of jealousy. That the angels were jealous of humanity, and that’s one of the major elements of the whole Lucifer ‘fall from grace’ is the fact that he was jealous of the special attention that God put toward the human race. That’s always in my mind, and I always think that they don’t look at us as anything special; they resent us. They basically hate us, we’re just another experiment and God will move to something else later on and he’ll forget all about these humans. But the fact that they’re managing to stick around just pisses them off even more so. And I think that’s where the whole Nathanuel came from, that he’d be willing to have it all wiped out and maybe God will start again, or maybe forget about starting anything else and just focus on how great they are, the first of his creations.

Francis is one of those multifaceted, funny, no-nonsense characters you just love.

You know, it’s always a tossup between Francis and Marlowe. Those are the two that the people say to me, my favorite Character is… Here’s this former Guardian Angel from heaven who’s basically become an assassin on earth who is a bad-ass. (laughter) Talk about baddest of the bad-ass, he’d be the one. Almost that kind of working man type attitude and he’s a blast to write! You know what’s funny, I just had to do a new Remy novella and as I was outlining it Francis wasn’t in the story and all of a sudden it was like, ‘I can’t write this and have Francis not be in [it].’ As soon as he became part of the story, the story just flew out of me. He’s a really interesting character. The characters of Remy and Francis just play off each other so well that it becomes almost easy to write if the two of them are in a scene together. It takes on a life of its own, I just basically sit back and I’m observing. It’s just so natural that these two are going to be going back-and-forth. And it’s obvious with Francis and Remy that there’s a real strong friendship there as well. It’s one of those really deep friendships that, kind of like Chris and I almost, where you’re constantly making fun of each other, the little pokes, little jabs.

Why did you give Remy the ability to speak with his dog Marlowe?

It’s become an almost thing with me now that people are kind of expecting it. And the thing is, it’s not like I don’t want to do it, it’s like that needs to be there, that fits. I don’t know what it says about me that I can kind of get into their heads. I’ve had a lot of people with animals say, ‘If they could talk that’s exactly what they would sound like.’ That makes me feel good that I’m able to capture what they would sound like. [Marlowe’s simple vocabulary is…] Because they’re so childlike. I’m only speaking from my Lab [Mulder, yes after Fox of the X-Files] experience but they just totally depend on you. It’s almost like they’re going to be a little kid forever and I think that simple, almost childlike speech pattern is just appropriate, it just makes sense because it’s the way they act. Even their physical actions have a childlike quality to them. And there’s also a selfishness there which comes from childlike qualities because it’s all about them. There’s a scene that I wrote in The Fallen book that almost broke my heart when I was writing it. Camael and Gabriel [are] sitting on a bench in this park and it’s before the main character Aaron was going off to this major battle and Gabriel says to Camael, ‘What’s gonna happen to me (if he doesn’t come back)?’ and it’s not like, ‘I’m worried about him,’ it’s, ‘who’s gonna take care of me?’ I remember writing it being, ‘oh that’s so sad,’ I was writing this scene and I didn’t want to go any further with it but it was really appropriate for the character because I think animals would think that way because we do take care of them.

A minor character, Sariel, may be one who you love to hate.

I think one of the things, if I have to say anything about what I’m good at, is that I think I’m good at shades of gray. Where I never out-and-out say ‘bad guy, look at how bad that guy is’ and there’s just that one aspect. Most of the villains are so layered, or these characters are layered that you can almost [say], yeah he’s bad but… I can understand where this aspect of him would have came from. I try to layer them enough so it makes sense, you can see why they’re the way they are, what has led them down that path. You won’t like Sariel as much after you read the novella, (laughter) he’s far worse than you think he is. He’s pulled off something in the novella that’s pretty nasty.

Another unique minor character is Joan, the Nurse.

She’s actually modeled after a bunch of people that I worked with at Northeastern. There were a couple of women I worked with who were a riot. I think every character is important even if they’re in a page or two pages or two scenes - I think they should have their moment. I think they should be as real as the guy who the book’s about because that makes the world that you’re trying to suck the reader into that much more real.

Who was your favorite character?

If I was forced to say, it’s a toss up between Remy, Francis and Marlowe, Those are the three characters that I just love to write. And even Mulvehill, if I had to slide Mulvehill as a close second. I love to write those characters because their interactions with each other are great. Especially those scenes, before the rooftop, when Mulvehill shows up with the Scotch and Marlowe’s ripping up the bag, Remy’s like, ‘Don’t rip that bag up,’ and he’s ripping the bag up. (laughter) ‘You’re really good with him.’ Even though Mulvehill knows they can communicate with each other but Marlowe still doesn’t listen. It’s like, [Marlowe] ‘I do what I do, leave me alone, this is how it is.’

How much of Tom is in Remy?

I think a lot more than I even realize (laughter) because I’ve had multiple people saying that to me recently who have read the book. ‘There’s so much of you, the way he talks,’ and I’m denying it but the more they throw the facts in front of me the more I can’t deny it. I think that’s a common trait for a writer, to instill his main characters with certain personality quirks and traits. He’s not really me but he might have some of my characteristics. [If your main character is your most insightful character, then who do you know the best but yourself] That’s exactly it. How would you react in that situation, that type of thing. You place yourself in these situations or in these places, especially when you’re having to deal with an emotional response then that’s when it really becomes you.

THE STORY

You create wonderful conflicts between the Angelic Qualities.

Israfil actually almost possessed a human body, kind of wore it like a suit whereas what Remy did was almost ‘give up’ the angelic, take the angelic ability and shut it down. Basically build a body from his angelic essence and take everything that makes him an angel and push it deep down inside him. So all the aspects of a human are there but he really still isn’t human, [he’s] pretending to be human. [You’ve given the angelic being these human emotions] Exactly, and don’t even realize it. The qualities that they despise in humanity they all have themselves and they don’t recognize them because they see themselves as these pristine things that are so much better than these lowly, hairless monkeys that God is so fond of. The pettiness, there’s this ultimate jealousy especially with Nathanuel in terms of basically, “Well I’ll just trigger the Apocalypse and get rid of all of it, that’ll be awesome, all my problems will be gone, we won’t have to deal with any of this crap.”

Remy’s wife Madeline brings the pathos to the story, was it difficult writing that?

That’s probably one of the toughest things I’ve had to do in a book and it probably has an awful lot to do with being in your 40’s, when you suddenly start to think about the fact that you’re getting older, when morality becomes more and more obvious to you. I think this is my way of dealing with that in a crazy kind of way. Everybody knows that things die, people die, it’s the way of life but I think I have a tendency, and this is just one of my weird quirks, but almost obsess about stuff like that. Losing your parents, loosing your dog, loosing your pet – it’s there. There’s always a part of my brain functioning about that. I probably need medication for it. (laughter) I think this book actually might have been an attempt at medicating myself, almost like working through it. The fact that the book deals so much with death in somebody dealing with the death of something that’s so important to them. Madeline is his anchor, it’s what keeps him human and to lose that, what would that mean to somebody? I know how horrible it would mean to me on just a human level, what if it even goes beyond that. He gave up being Divine in order to experience being a human and at the same time, ‘as divine I don’t have to deal with kind of pain.’ It’s this double edged sword, being human is awesome and he loves it, but at the same time, this is worse than any battle, any sword to the chest.

The touching scenes with Marlowe, did you expect to make people cry?

Those were killing me let me tell you, writing those scenes were tough. I made a shit load of people cry (amazement). I made my wife cry. She’s a nurse and she’s got to be very, almost cold in the way she deals with a lot. So emotionally she’s very distant and she cried. I was like, ‘If I can get the Terminator to cry this is something.’ I made my editor cry, Ginjer Buchanan who’s been an editor in New York publishing for probably the last 50 years, she cried. Which I think I should get a medal; there should be some kind of award for that. (laughter) And that’s why I always say when people ask, ‘How was the experience writing this book?’ I say, ‘It was murder.’ (laughter) There’d be days that my eyes would be burning and drippy as if it actually physically hurt to work on certain scenes. I think it makes it a better book, forcing myself to go to those places. See - I’m a goof. I’m a kind of stupid kid, I’m 10. That’s what Chris always says: I’m a 10 year-old trapped in a 46 year-old person’s body. Most of my books are big monsters with guys with guns or super powers beating the shit out of them. It’s lots of fighting and explosions and everybody’s happy at the end. This is my ‘big boy’ book and it made me go to places I wouldn’t even consider going to because it ain’t fun.

Are we going to see more of Remy? Marlowe? Francis?

You will! The second book is written, it’s already in the can. After they read the first, and got their numbers, they were happy enough that they offered me two more, and a novella. The novella came out of nowhere. I was at World Fantasy in upper New York state having breakfast with Ginjer, my editor, and she’s like, ‘What’s your schedule look like? Could you squeeze a Remy novella because we’re putting out a collection of urban fantasy authors and their creations.’ It’s Jim Butcher, the guy who does the Dresden [Files] books – who sells like frigging crazy, (laughter) which thank you very much, please put me in this collection with him. There’s Simon R. Green who’s a British urban fantasy guy, [Kat Richardson] and I’m the forth person in this collection. They’re going to try and put the collection out in between Kiss and the next one which is called, Dancing on the Head of a Pin. We will see more Marlowe. Marlowe’s in the novella, that got turned in last week. He’s in Dancing on the Head of a Pin and he will most definitely be in the next two, he’s a main character, I can’t do anything to him. It’s funny because you think about that stuff, what if I.. and I just back away from that, he’s too crucial. He’s like that little voice in the background. More Francis but… the second book there’s some interesting things with Francis. And that second book almost killed me! I think a combination of emotional as well as just really tough because when I finished Kiss I felt like it was such an accomplishment, I was so proud of myself. I liked the book so much which is really uncommon for me; I usually don’t like the stuff that I write. But I liked it so much and I liked the character so much that going into another book it was like, ‘How do I top the best thing that I’ve ever written?’ It’s funny because I’ve had some reviewers contact me and say, ‘Okay the first book you deal with the Apocalypse, where the hell you going from here?’ And I was like, ‘Oh yeah, you guys do have a point.’ Believe me wait ’til and see where I’m going. Oh yeah, I’m going to some really interesting places!

Dancing on the Head of a Pin is planned for April 2009.